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October  29

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October 29, 2005 in The Daily Chat | Permalink


I'm torn about my vote for governor. It's between Corzine and Forchion. I want to keep NJ a Democratic state, but I'm not thrilled with Corzine. I'd like to vote for Forchion (Weedman), but if I do am I taking a vote from Corzine and strengthening Forrester? There's no way that Forchion is going to win, and even if he did, he'd have to get the legislature to legalize marijuana. Fat chance in hell. So, what to do?

Posted by: Dana | Oct 29, 2005 4:01:25 PM

Corzine is pretty much a sure thing, the only hope is that the Republicans take one house of the legislature.

That said voting for any third party candidate registers a protest vote to the major parties that they have given us a lousy selection, again.

If you are interested in the possibility of a third party, a vote for Weedman does very little aside from showing some strength for the reform of Marijuana laws. A vote for the Greens or, perhaps the Libertarians (some research would be required) strengthens that party in future elections.

If a third party obtains sufficient votes, they become eligible for debate participation and some public campaign financing, broadening the debate.

I often vote for Greens, not because I condone their agenda, merely to try to expand the debate. Or more properly encourage some kind of actual debate and (I hope, someday) honest examination of issues.

Posted by: Kevin Lee Allen | Oct 29, 2005 5:05:13 PM

I look at Forrester as the lesser of two evils. I just can't get away from the fact that Corzine is a product of the same political machine that produced scandal after scandal after scandal. McGreevey was only the tip of the iceberg and its ironic that the thing that brought him down really had nothing to do with some of the other scandals that plagued his administration. Suburbanites pay a huge price for urban corruption in New Jersey and Corzine will only feed into that. Example: two months ago when it was uncovered that the Newark Housing Authority had used $600,000 of HUD money to pay for the property the Newark Arena is being built on Sharpe James said it was a "bookkeeping error" that would be "corrected". Who was standing next to him at the press conference? Jon Corzine.

Posted by: sickandtired | Oct 29, 2005 5:27:55 PM

I just want Corzine to stop calling and leaving messages for me!!!

Posted by: hate to shop | Oct 29, 2005 5:51:48 PM

both the parties are corrupt here in NJ, we see the Democrats perp walks because Essex is a Democratic County.

With Corzine, you'll recognize the crooks. Forrester will bring in different crooks.

They both owe the county chairmen. Even though they both should OWN the county chairmen.

Posted by: Kevin Lee Allen | Oct 29, 2005 6:04:14 PM

No one has offered me a no-show patronage job yet (HINT to whomever wants my vote).

Posted by: crank | Oct 29, 2005 7:03:07 PM

Just a little "FYI" aside:

How embedded is corruption in NJ politics? Woodrow Wilson was elected governor of New Jersey on the promise to end corruption in the state, which at that time was viewed as worst in the country. We have made progress though. At the time of the McGreevey scandal Time magazine published an article saying we were the third most corrupt state (behind Illinois and Louisiana)

Posted by: but will it ever go away? | Oct 30, 2005 6:57:42 AM

"We have made progress though. At the time of the McGreevey scandal Time magazine published an article saying we were the third most corrupt state (behind Illinois and Louisiana."

Yeah, some progress. I'm with the Sickandtired. I don't like some of the company that Corzine keeps; too close for comfort. Just as Jewish leaders ask, "Is it good for the Jews?", I think we have to sit back and ask a similar question about a Corzine administration, "Is it good for New Jersey?"

Posted by: Miss Martta | Oct 30, 2005 7:39:51 AM

The difference, Miss Martta, is that the Jews that are asking that question are already the leaders. We here in New Jersey have no adult leadership. Unless the people go back to grass-roots politics and take control of our state, we will be governed by those who have enough personal capital to buy their positions or by those whose desire is to sell out their positions to line their pockets. Also, unlike Israel, we are not a "one-issue" state. Israel makes hard decisions based on survival. We suffer corruption based on factional agendas.

Posted by: Conan the Grammarian | Oct 30, 2005 8:02:39 AM

I'km with you Divine Miss M,
Even here in on my visit to the city of San Antonio Texas, I talk with people from other states and they ask me about the culture of corruption in NJ. Corzine is guilty by his association and endorsement of McGreevey. Will Corzine be good for Jersey...I have no reason to be confident.

Posted by: The Iceman | Oct 30, 2005 8:21:44 AM

Or, we could take a page from The Great Green North: http://www.vermontrepublic.org/index.html

Posted by: Conan the Grammarian | Oct 30, 2005 8:23:05 AM

personally i think jersey would really scarey out on it's own from the U. S.- we can't even break away from essex county lmao

Posted by: cstarling | Oct 30, 2005 8:41:59 AM

"...Time magazine published an article saying we were the third most corrupt state..."

So if everybody knows this, how come it continues?? It becomes not "corrupt" any more, but institutionalized...

Posted by: Confused Citizen | Oct 30, 2005 9:43:02 AM

The reason it continues is because New Jersey suffers from that most dreaded of suburban maladies; apathy. 3/4 of New Jersey's population is suburban and we are clearly impacted by the corruption that emanates mainly from the urban centers. However, until there is a clear sense of outrage from the suburbs it will never stop. The Schools Construction Fund is a great example. $6 billion that was meant to last until 2009 is gone with only 1/3 of the intended programs completed. Hundreds of millions has literally vanished. Yet those urban centers are screaming they want the missing money replaced which BOTH gubernatorial candidates' support. Who paid for the missing money and who is going to replace it? We in the suburbs and we should all be demanding that not one new penny be spent until we find out where the money went as well as see a few people locked up. But that is simply not going to happen and in a few years we'll all be reading about how another $6 billion has disappeared...

Posted by: sickandtired | Oct 30, 2005 11:18:50 AM

Dear Confused Citizen,
As long as the Judy Millers of the US news organizations rely on the White House, State House and Mayor's office (Republican or Democrats) to feed them the majority of their "reports" (many actually "news releases" from the politicians), we will never have anything but institutionalized corruption. Both parties will do everything in their power to ensure that a third party will never ruin their opportunity to profit from the power of the office.

Posted by: LetThemEatWords | Oct 30, 2005 11:57:43 AM


How does an urban center scream?

Turning the situation into the same old urban centers vs. suburbs dichotomy isn't going to help matters. That's not what it's about. The VAST majority of people who live in the urban centers are getting f-d over too, just like the rest of us.

This is about the crooks who know how to game the system, and spend their lives doing it, vs. the honest citizenry.

Posted by: crank | Oct 30, 2005 12:05:01 PM

I agree with you crank - to a point. Look at the billions of dollars that have been poured into Newark in the last 40 years; has it improved the lot of the average person there? Reduced poverty? Lowered crime? No, not one bit. But you'd have to have blinders on not to know where the cash drains are in this state. Yet we keep throwing bad money after bad. Until the people footing the bill say "Enough" it won't stop. Make no mistake, this is a double edged sword. We get drained and the people living there get killed. But nobody in either place is bold enough to stop it.

Posted by: sickandtired | Oct 30, 2005 12:14:27 PM

In The Star-Ledger (October 29) article, "After years as insider, Libby faces the spotlight," Republican strategist Mary Matalin is quoted as saying that I. Lewis Libby is "not pushing an agenda." How laughable.

On June 3, 1997, he was one of the signers of the Statement of Principles of the Project for the New American Century (www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm) which advocated the "need to increase defense spending significantly...and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values."

On January 26, 1998 this group wrote President Clinton and urged him to enunciate a new strategy, "That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime from power."

This was prior to 9/11, and the other signers of the Statement of Principles included Libby's closest friend, Dick Cheney, who was heading Halliburton at the time which would profit from rebuilding Iraq; Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz who would eventually develop the ill-conceived war plan; William Bennett; Steve Forbes; Jeb Bush; Gary Bauer and others. The Project's chairman, William Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, became a venue for articles promoting the pro-war propaganda and denouncing Joseph Wilson. Mr. Kristol also would appear on FoxNews, owned by Rupert Murdoch and presided over by Republican strategist Roger Ailes, promoting the war and denigrating its opponents along with the likes of Mary Matalin.

This well-oiled "fair and balanced" propaganda machine will try to spin the indictment as having no basis (it has already begun at The Weekly Standard), and that Libby has no agenda. But Cheney, Rove and Libby were trying to build a "yellow cake" case for going to war. Cheney, in all likelihood, asked CIA Director Tenet to get confirmation. Tenet asked his WMD expert, Valerie Plame, who could do this, and she suggested her husband, Joseph Wilson, because he already was an Iraq specialist, having been the acting ambassador at the US Embassy during Desert Shield, the lead-up to the first Gulf War. When Wilson returned with information that didn't fit the propaganda that Cheney, Rove and Libby wanted, Libby violated his National Security Clearance by revealing Plame's name to reporters who did not have clearance in an attempt to raise doubts about Wilson.

Now we will get to see if Libby will give up the names of Cheney and Rove in a plea to avoid 30 years in prison. Or if he will allow himself to dangle in the wind until George Bush pardons him before leaving office.

Posted by: LetThemEatWords | Oct 30, 2005 12:22:36 PM

>> We get drained and the people living there get killed. But nobody in either place is bold enough to stop it. <<

Well put. That is the painful crux of the matter.

Wish I had an answer to the dilemma.

Posted by: crank | Oct 30, 2005 8:33:26 PM

BTY - I saw posts here by Kevin Allen - is that the same Kevin Allen of the stop county gov't movement?

Posted by: sickandtired | Oct 30, 2005 10:50:52 PM

Was Halloween actually cancelled, here, yesterday??

Posted by: Confused Citizen | Oct 31, 2005 12:09:54 AM

There is an answser crank: outrage. Just doesn't seem to happen in these parts...

Posted by: sickandtired | Oct 31, 2005 7:39:41 AM

Dear sick andtired,

I think you are right on with your observations! Whether on a national, or on a local level, "Where is the outrage?"

Barista posted in the last week about how 30 cars are being used by employees in Montclair for their personal use -- you know, commuting to/from work, vacations, hunting trips, whatever. Officials come back and say, "Oh, that's not going to happen anymore, we now have a policy." Yeah, and what about all the money that's down the drain? A half a million gets "lost" in the water department and again, no one makes a comment. Where's the outrage?

I've a theory that says in this town, and probably the country, about 1/3 of the people have so little money that they feel there's nothing they can do to change things. Another 1/3 have so MUCH money and are beneficiaries of the system that they couldn't care less about changing things. That leaves about 1/3 of the population who is interested in bettering things.

But it is an uphill battle.


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